Posts by Anony Mous

46

QFR: "Warning - memorial partakers might be loonies!"

by cedars in

as part of my objective analysis of four month's worth of watchtower study editions from july to october 2011, i found the following gem from a question from readers, on page 22 of the august 15 magazine.

the question under discussion was "how are we to understand the figures in the annual service report?

", and it goes on to provide an idiot's guide to what the figures mean, including the following.... "memorial partakers.

Anony Mous

Given that memorial partakers might be partaking unworthily, shouldn't elders be questioning these individuals congregation-by-congregation to ascertain their state of mental/emotional health, particularly in the light of Paul's words at 1 Corinthians 11:27, "Consequently whoever eats the loaf or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will be guilty respecting the body and the blood of the Lord."

They already do. The latest instructions stated that if somebody is not a baptized JW in good standing, they are not to be counted if they partake. Also, all partakers are to be talked to before they leave the site or as soon as possible.

The numbers are ALREADY skewed downwards by at least 50%. We have some crazy lady that comes every year, already drunk to eat, drink and talk loudly through the talk. She doesn't get counted. We have 1 or 2 mentally ill (in my hall, 50% is on some type of anti-depressant or shizophrenia pill, about 80% of them long-time pio-sneers) that occassionally partake (whenever it coincides with their 'bad' days) and they never get counted as the elders just talk to them on another day and then they're no longer 'annointed'.

22

Look! Its our circuit overseer! Je- hovah has saved us!

by Slidin Fast in

jw
friends

you couldn't make it up.

see today's wt .

9 eldersonregionalbuildingcommittees and relief committees work hard to help the brothers.

Anony Mous

That was seriously an interesting Watchtower to comment on.

My comments:

- The bible clearly shows that Paul nor the congregation in Thessalonica had any guidance from a central governing body, they were individual congregations so they needed to rely on the Bible to make decisions

- The last review question: Overseers should only help others in the congregation, they should not judge, only God has the authority to judge

- We should follow the example of the Boreans (however it's spelled) who confirmed that all things that Paul and the apostles sent them were found in the bible. Likewise these days, elders should make sure that everything they say from the stage or to others is supported directly in the bible.

54

Testing, testing, testing.....Jehovah TESTS?

by Terry in

a classroom teacher has to administer tests.

the teacher doesn't know who is learning and who isn't or how much.. a test pilot flys a new jet to determine what strengths and weaknesses correspond to the design because nobody knows how close.

the manufacture of it came to the ideal.. fire drills are a test: can everybody exit in an orderly fashion in a reasonable amount of time in case there is a fire.. if you think you may be pregant you take a pregnancy test because you won't know for sure otherwise (unless you wait 9 months!).

Anony Mous

Hi Tec:

God alone knows when the best time to act is and knows where humanity will end up.

- Given that we have free will, how do gods know when the best time to act IS (as an absolute) where is the point that 'everything goes downhill from here' beyond the point of no return when you have creatures that in an effort of self-preservation could excercise their free will to better themselves? We may have lived through the worst ecological disasters but everything else seems to be going uphill from the '80's on. Humanity's choices has fixed the ozone layer, produced smarter kids, advanced technology to less wasteful systems (your computer in the '80's would've used as much if not more energy as now but with 1 billion times less capacity), cheaper products have caused less violent crime (your TV or cell phone isn't worth that much anymore) and better education has gotten people out of bad poverty cycles. If you go back even further before the industrial age, life was harsh, disease, war and poverty killed most of the population before they reached 30. Are we worse off now than we were then?

Regarding tests, I thought I would put something out there. Besides letting a teacher know what a student can do, a test ALSO lets the student know what they need to focus on and improve.

- That implies a continuous, active feedback cycle however. Gods don't give feedback. Gods don't tell us we're doing good or where we can improve. Whenever someone implies that the gods have answered their prayers through their holy books, they actually imply that they themselves have found an answer to whatever problem they were facing since many read the same texts and receive different answers. This means that something is going on in your brain and it has been proven by empirical tests (science) that when you take your mind off a problem, your brain continues working on it and you'll be more likely to get an answer after doing something else whichever that is. If I told anyone my grass has answered my prayers and everyone should make offerings to the bags of fertilizer in my garage because I found the solution after mowing my lawn they'd say I'm crazy, however if the grass is substituted for paper and the fertilizer for gods people accept it.

If God was just going to leave everyone alone and let everyone figure it out themselves, then we would have no prophets, no prayers answered, no Holy Spirit, and He would not have sent Christ to us, to show us the way.

That implies that I believe that there were actually infallible prophets, that prayers get answered, the Holy Spirit floats around and Christ was divine. I DO NOT. Thus I believe that religion sent out, created or persuaded those types of people and that a lot of them did believe their own delusions. Nostradamus is also considered a prophet but just like the Bible, his prophecies didn't come true or required a LOT of interpretation to fit certain ideas. And at that point, anything could fit. I could say "tomorrow the sun will no longer shine" and then you open the paper tomorrow and you read "Steve Jobs died" or "The son of York gets restorative hair implants" (Shakespear) or "Lunar eclipse in western hemisphere" or "Oracle takes over Sun Microsystems" and those would all 'fit'.

24

Past Organized Attempts to Level the Playing Field with WTBTS

by Band on the Run in

i am new to jw dissidents.

a couple of weeks ago i created a post asking what attempts have been made in the past to organize some opposition.

personally, i don't feel it would be fruitful to challenge the wt first amendment benefits.

Anony Mous

Education is indeed the best tool. What we need to lobby for is better education in schools and compulsary attendance. US schools are currently the worst in the first world, European schools won't even accept transfers from high school, colleges or University with at least 1 or 2 years additional training. I don't know how people get through college without learning critical thinking or how someone gets out of high school without knowing how to read and speak properly, do basic mathematics without a calculator or just plain common sense.

Evolution, quantum physics, astronomy is showing us clearly that it is very inconceivable to have an intelligent God "create" everything. There are much better explanations that fit better with our chaotic Universe where we are most likely not alone.

Thankfully even other evangelical Christians are waking up to the facts that humans could not have been produced from Adam & Eve (since our genome has been decoded, scientist will find where we DID come from but they already found it's not from 2 people) and more and more people are starting to see that the Bible is contradicting both science, human nature and itself.

As far as legal challenges to disfellowshipping - it has been outlawed in many countries when it is on the basis of medical treatment or freedom of religion but it's very hard to force someone to engage in social contact if they don't want to (or are told not to want to) so the WT still has the proverbial stick to whack with. The US has off course upheld it. What people need to learn is that it is not Biblical and that is what my '3rd student talk' is going to go over tonight (the subject is following God and Christ in good manners).

22

Marking?? WTH is that?

by Free!! in

i was a baptized jw for about 6 years in a spanish congregation.. and i never ever ever heard anything about "marking"... what is that??

i knew someone can be disfellowshipped, publicly/privately reproved or dissasociated themselves.. but i never heard of marking.. can someone please care to explain that term to me?.

.

Anony Mous

Actually, from a pure biblical sense (if you buy into the Pauline doctrine on congregation operations), marking is the ONLY acceptable reproof a congregation and 'older men' can dish out. Disfellowshipping (or shunning) or reproving (taking away of privileges) has never been scriptural. Marking was decided not just by the 'older men' (although they had authority to speak and bring it to attention) but by the whole congregation and the whole congregation knew what was going on in very specific details. Even women (such as Mary, the mother of Jesus) was in attendance when decisions were made (such as the decisions of appointing 7 men over the food distribution).

In the early Christian congregation, everyone was accepted even the sinners and there were even 3 traditions (Gnostic, Jewish and Gentile) within the congregation. The only context marking was used was when members were speaking against Jesus or trying to lead others away from Jesus' teachings such as those that introduced Greek Philosophies.

Everyone (including women) that had the Holy Spirit (the gifts in men) were not only allowed but obliged to teach, prophecy etc. (if anyone had the Holy Spirit swell up, the current speaker was to cease immediately and yield to the one with Holy Spirit).

35

Getting rid of the Book Study - a way to isolate the JW?

by skeeter1 in

the book study meeting was cancelled a while back.

the watch tower said that it was to provide for a family study night and high gas costs.

hmmm.. i thought about the cancellation of the book study meeting after listening to another pastor discus his mega-churchs dependence on small circle groups.

Anony Mous

They have indeed been emphasizing Family Worship Meeting. The fact is, 80% of the dubs don't get around to it and the rest usually discusses family matters that are not necessarily spiritual. My family reads a bible chapter or an article and then the discussion usually goes wayward (in my case, sometimes critical of JW's) or about other things that concern us.

The book study was a breeding ground for apostasy though. Many times when elders got disfellowshipped in the past, part of their book study went with them. Also, when contributions were dwindling in the early 2000's (when the dotcom and housing bubble busted and the recession started) more and more congregations were dipping in the "no interest savings account with the branch" to pay the basic utilities so keeping the lights, airconditioning and heat off for an extra night (which was basically 1/3 and in some congregations with 2 bookstudies at the hall 1/2 of the total active time of the building) and consolidating 3 congregations in 1 building became much easier to do. The branch actually sent out a letter that those accounts are not to be used for the 'operational expenses'.

They have never really cared about the individual dub. It's all about the money. They're starting to feel the pinch though as they have been emphasizing no college and piosneering and the average dub doesn't have much more to share and the above-average dub has become aware of their lies.

12

If they really are expecting the end so soon...

by WTWizard in

you hear the witlesses harping on how great tribulation is coming.

there are signs even in the world that major bedlam is soon to break out.. so then, how many witlesses did you know that have plans to make such tribulation a bit more endurable?

you know, things like gold and silver in case their currency becomes worthless.

Anony Mous

First of all, Jay Hofer will protect them through the Great Tribulation no matter what. Magic light, food and blankets included. That's not the main problem however - magic will solve that, I likewise have problems with the way they claim that they will be the only ones left and that the RBC will handle all building projects.

- 60% of JW's are women but that depends heavily on area. I went to a party the other day and in that congregation, 80% of the young people were female. Given that many on this board are male and most of the currently doubting JW's are male and given that we'll all be destroyed, maybe they'll need situations like the Mormons to satisfy everybody's needs.

- The RBC is a f*ing nightmare to deal with. Designed by committee a lot of halls are not built to last more than 10 years. They take forever to plan anything (months, sometimes years) and a 'Quick Build' means that the building appears finished but for months afterwards electricians, electronics engineers, plumbers, carpenters and moisture control technicians need to replace and repair about 10-20% of the building because it is done wrong. I am an electric engineer and I would say 70% of the halls I see are a fire hazard with haphazard single wires laying across crawl spaces, speaker and microphone wires crossing lights with ballasts (wonder why you hear hums and cracks in your sound system?), wire nuts in the middle of a wall (someone ran out of wire eh?)

- A Quick Build is done over the weekend because then the structure can't be inspected by (usually lazy) week-day city inspectors but I have heard on 2 or 3 projects 'worldly husbands' that are in the trade (rough building) say that the buildings are not up to code or that the way they are built is not solid. One of them was a mason and he said: "this close to an airfield, you have to let your cement dry a lot longer and lay it thinner - you're using people that never layed a brick in their life and they're slapping the cement on too thick - you won't be able to just build a frame on top of that the same day". Sure enough, the masonry "settled" by the end of the project and cracked, 2 years later it started requiring concrete injections which closed the gaps between the outside bricks and the inside bricks and thus caused massive moisture problems. If you could calculate how many volunteer man-hours are spent and how much that would actually cost if you had to hire somebody you would be amazed.

- Agriculture is HARD. Given that most Witnesses live in urban areas and how much farmland in the US has never seen a Witness I wonder how they will be at all their meetings, conventions etc. if even the Bible says God's people had to work every day for more than 12 hours were it not for their Sabbath. Besides that, crops these days require engineers and large farms require a small town to support themselves (fuel, maintenance, building materials, tools, ...). 7 million Witnesses are dispersed over so much land that you would have to collect at least several congregations in order to support a single farm. In farming areas, currently all meetings are literally collected in a single meeting during the harvest season and 50% doesn't show up anyway. That's how farming is done in real life, your backyard garden won't support you for very long.

Noah's Ark - a story from the Newest Testament

by Anony Mous in

jw
friends

i translated this from somebody sending this to me in another language.

i found it funny this was circulating among jw's.. the lord saw the land in the year 2010. the land was overpopulated and bad.

he therefore decided to destroy this part of his creation.

Anony Mous

I translated this from somebody sending this to me in another language. I found it funny this was circulating among JW's.

The Lord saw the land in the year 2010. The land was overpopulated and bad. He therefore decided to destroy this part of his creation. The Lord descended and gave Noah the instructions to build an ark and take with him 2 samples of every living thing together with some good people to save.

Here's the plan said God, hurry because in 6 months it will start raining for 40 days and 40 nights. The Weather Channel will not be able to explain it and probably blame it on things like 'global warming' or something. 6 months later it started raining. The Lord looked down and saw Noah crying in his somewhat submerged garden but he saw no Ark. "Noah" he thundered "where is my Ark".

"Forgive me Lord" prayed Noah. "The rules have changed a lot since back in the day". I had to get a special building permit from the Bureau of Planning & Zoning and I had to discuss it with inspectors of the insurance company in relation to my property insurance. My neighbors claimed I went over their property line and that with my Ark I didn't respect the township's maximum building height. Also they complained with police about excessive noise and they came and measured it. I had to go several times to City Hall to get building permits, now the County has my case in their hands. Also members of the Department of Public Work have been involved. They demand an assurance for the future possible cost of changes to the infrastructure of the Ark if it gets moved to the ocean. I told them the ocean would come here but they didn't believe it. Also I am now daily being harassed by people from the paper, television and the gossip magazines.

The buying of the wood was another problem. Leftist don't want me to cut down the local trees to protect the spotted owl. I tried convincing the activists that I needed the wood to protect the owl and the good people but they didn't listen to me. In the mean time I collected the animals as you have instructed but then I was sued by PETA. They claimed that I had kept the animals locked up against their will and that the accomodation is very limited and that it was cruel to keep so many animals on such a little ark.

The Department of Agriculture decided that I couldn't build an ark without an environmental report by a recognized agency about the flood that was predicted by You. In the mean time I am still busy with a complaint from the Center for Equal Opportunity. They demand equal access by everyone and also that I hire underprivileged people to build the ark without regard of race, religion or gender. On the other hand, the local chapter of the carpenter union wants me to put some of their members to work. I don't even know how to do it anymore, the state doesn't even have money in budget anymore to keep all the Departments I depend on open all week.

On top of that the IRS together with the DHS has frozen all my assets and seized all my property. They claim that I want to leave the country taking with me endangered species of animals. And when they heard about me at the Department of Public Health they started asking me for a plan to get all the excrement out. And then I don't even talk about all the politicians that for me to get any favors all know somebody that wants to go on the Ark. So forgive me Lord, it will take at least 10 years to complete the Ark.

Suddenly the rain stopped. The skies cleared up and the sun started shining. Noah looked surprised. "Does that mean you won't destroy the land anymore?" He asked. "No", the Lord said, "Your politicians are doing a good job at that already"

27

As a JW Kid Were You Expected To Get Baptised By Your Parents/ Congregation

by Hairyhegoat in

here is a quote from a ex-jw about this subject, i myself had alot of pressure from my family to get baptised and finally gave in at 14, wish i had left them a present on the way out of the pool that floated..at the dudley assembley hall .

i can't justify my entire family (parents, sisters, aunts, uncles, grandma) and friends shunning me because i chose not to uphold a dedication i made at twelve years old.

sure it was my "choice" to get baptized.

Anony Mous

Off course. I won't raise my kids that way but many make the statement whenever they see a newborn that they are to be a "new disciple for Jehovah". I don't know if that's a recent thing but I have heard it a couple of times now.

I was expected and pressured from when I was 14. My mom didn't want me to be so I held off until 18 and a girlfriend convinced me to do it and I did it for her. My mom eventually left (quick, total exit) 2 years later but I was stuck being freshly baptized and trying to please yet another girl. I only got to my senses less than a year ago.

16

Hungary strips JW's of its legal status as a religious organization

by Honesty in

http://www.virtueonline.org/portal/modules/news/article.php?storyid=14742.

hungary has introduced a new law governing the registration of religious groups that critics charge discriminates against minority faiths, and strips st margaret's anglican church in budapest of its status as a religious organisation.. .

on 14 july the hungarian parliament adopted "the right to freedom of conscience and religion and on the status of churches, religions and religious communities" law, by a vote of 254 in favour to 43 opposed.. .

Anony Mous

The thing is that most governments are sick of these organizations springing up everywhere that are basically a business but claim religious status and go tax exempt. The Witnesses, Scientologists, Salvation Army, Mormons and in my area a lot of 'baptist' churches all have this status. The only 'benefactors' of these religions are the ones on the top (the pastor/priest/governing body/church elders) but they loathe giving it out. There is no giving to the poor or distributing the wealth or even setting up a shelter or soup kitchen.

Recently here there was a pastor that had a million-dollar home, multiple cars and the outrage was that it was all in the churches name. We even have a 'non-denominational' megachurch (think assembly hall-size) where about 1800 people get together each week to listen to 1 pastor and he gets all the (tax-free) money.

I would say, classify all religion as businesses. No more tax exemption for any of them. If they can't cut it with their business, then the business fails.